#twiki_fork 2008-10-27,Mon

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Who	What	When
***	gmc has joined #twiki_fork ServerMode/#twiki_fork [+ns] by leguin.freenode.net Irssi: #twiki_fork: Total of 1 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 0 normal] Irssi: Join to #twiki_fork was synced in 0 secs MichaelDaum has joined #twiki_fork mode/#twiki_fork [+o MichaelDaum] by gmc EugenMayer has joined #twiki_fork OliverKrueger has joined #twiki_fork	[21:39]
OliverKrueger	Moin.	[21:40]
***	Lavr_ has joined #twiki_fork AndreU has joined #twiki_fork	[21:40]
EugenMayer	hello fellows	[21:41]
OliverKrueger	Finally....	[21:41]
gmc	hey	[21:41]
Lavr_	Hey.	[21:42]
***	GilmarSantosJr has joined #twiki_fork CDot1 has joined #twiki_fork	[21:42]
CDot1	hi all	[21:42]
AndreU	hi	[21:42]
Lavr_	We need fast: Name, domain, server	[21:42]
EugenMayer	Ok, before any name, councel stuff starts. I suggest, every last councel member keeps its seets, the community has elected them. In addition, who will host ( i will help here )	[21:43]
CDot1	ok, so, working name Nextwiki?	[21:43]
gmc	CDot1: yes, that would save me on shirt-printing costs	[21:43]
MichaelDaum	NextWiki is ok.	[21:43]
Lavr_	I would like a real name we can stick to fast. We need to build up a new brand fast.	[21:43]
EugenMayer	Guys, do we need the name disc. now? Is it really important for the poeple now to choose "i fork with them"?	[21:43]
GilmarSantosJr	hi all	[21:43]
CDot1	sven owns the domain; he may donate it, remains to be seen but it's a working name, in case we find something better. server?	[21:43]
EugenMayer	I will try to host	[21:44]
MichaelDaum	I've registered natural-wiki.org	[21:44]
EugenMayer	as long as i can ( performance wise )	[21:44]
CDot1	EugenMayer: could be a BIG load	[21:44]
OliverKrueger	I can donate some server resources.	[21:44]
gmc	nextwiki.org has address 82.94.245.62 <== that's one of my ips.. we should put something up there..	[21:44]
Lavr_	Oliver also said at some point that he could host	[21:44]
EugenMayer	I know, i try what i can Crawford.	[21:44]
CDot1	really need some decent HW	[21:44]
OliverKrueger	I have wiki-one.net/com/org	[21:45]
gmc	anyway, name is not so important now i guess	[21:45]
AndreU	we can also provide some host capacity	[21:45]
EugenMayer	My HW is not decent at this point. The HW is used also, so iam just maybe a time soloution	[21:45]
gmc	i've got some spare server capacity for the moment	[21:45]
AndreU	think we need to work out some kind of load balancing for the future	[21:45]
gmc	lets get that sorted out later, and set it up distributed properly from the start	[21:45]
EugenMayer	5,2GHZ x2 / 2GB ram / raid1 / no traffic limit is what i can give right now	[21:46]
AndreU	Eugen, this is great	[21:46]
gmc	EugenMayer: i've got 16x3ghz amd, 16GB ram, 4x1TB raid5 idling atm :) same with the traffic	[21:46]
EugenMayer	gmc: crazy guy!	[21:46]
AndreU	distributed can come a bit later, we are used to a slow server...	[21:46]
OliverKrueger	My server is smaller.	[21:46]
***	uebera\|\| has joined #twiki_fork You joined the channel	[21:47]
AndreU	you people looked at twiki.net?	[21:47]
gmc	AndreU: :)	[21:47]
uebera\|\|	Hi... still catching up...	[21:47]
***	PeterThoeny_ joined the channel	[21:47]
EugenMayer	ok, iam up to help setting up and administrate. I will try to make my plugins 4.2.3 ready and will contribute as soon as possible.	[21:47]
***	LarsEik joined the channel	[21:47]
AndreU	I guess they will start doing marketing with the things they prepared in the last months	[21:47]
OliverKrueger	Peter?	[21:47]
PeterThoeny_	hi olver	[21:47]
MichaelDaum	PeterThoeny_, what do you want here?	[21:47]
OliverKrueger	Do you want to fork, too?	[21:48]
EugenMayer	could we stop beein childish?	[21:48]
PeterThoeny_	just curiosity :-)	[21:48]
gmc	PeterThoeny_: would you kindly consider vacating this channel?	[21:48]
Lavr_	Noone with a sain mind will accept the twiki.net insanity conditions.	[21:48]
***	gmc changed mode: +oooo Lavr_ uebera\|\| CDot1 GilmarSantosJr gmc changed mode: +oooo AndreU Lavr_ OliverKrueger EugenMayer gmc changed mode: +o MichaelDaum	[21:48]
EugenMayer	Lavr_: there will be people, people who have never been part of the serious community and never really done more then discussing. This people will maybe do this, but we will not need them to much either here	[21:49]
MichaelDaum	Now, everybody can kickban, you Peter.	[21:49]
EugenMayer	Iam the jungest, i should start actuall. You can call it "its his age, forgive him"	[21:49]
Lavr_	Hey. The fork is an open source project. Even Peter can join.	[21:49]
PeterThoeny_	please consider a name other than twiki	[21:49]
***	PeterThoeny_ kicked off by EugenMayer : User terminated! PeterThoeny_ joined the channel	[21:49]
gmc	thanks EugenMayer	[21:50]
AndreU	Michael, you mean do it "the Peter way"?	[21:50]
***	gmc changed mode: +b !=PeterTho@63.146.69.* PeterThoeny_ kicked off by gmc : gmc	[21:50]
gmc	doesn't take a hint	[21:50]
CDot1	quit it; it's not important he is as entitled to be in this channel as anyone else	[21:50]
AndreU	let him in! I want to kick him too!	[21:50]
EugenMayer	Lavr_: iam fully with you, but he is trying just to provacate with his stay here	[21:50]
CDot1	he is not relevant	[21:50]
Lavr_	No. No more Peterphobia	[21:50]
OliverKrueger	I think, the name discussion is important now, cause we can unite behind a name. :)	[21:51]
EugenMayer	Ok lets keep on the points important.	[21:51]
***	gmc changed mode: -b !=PeterTho@63.146.69.* Lynnwood joined the channel	[21:51]
EugenMayer	Ok does anyone has a proper load balancing idea for the new "nextwiki" or even a solution?	[21:51]
CDot1	I have a list of names that I would be happy to share with everyone, that we worked out before (and during) the summit.	[21:51]
AndreU	I like nextwiki as a working name	[21:52]
Lavr_	Please share those names CDot	[21:52]
OliverKrueger	cool	[21:52]
EugenMayer	CDot1: lead on	[21:52]
CDot1	not now; can anyone set up a mailing list? register a project on sourceforge?	[21:52]
Lavr_	Do not worry too much about the load on our new server. The old t.o server was a piece of crap. That is why it was so slow.	[21:52]
gmc	i think i already registered nextwiki.org lemme check s/nextwiki.org/nextwiki on sf/	[21:52]
Lynnwood	death to twiki! long live nextwiki!!	[21:53]
OliverKrueger	Hi Lynnwood	[21:53]
EugenMayer	freelists.org?	[21:53]
Lynnwood	gawd, why did we waste so long thinking these folks would going to get it?	[21:53]
MichaelDaum	Lynnwood, you sound like an old pirate	[21:53]
***	AndreU changed mode: +o Lynnwood	[21:54]
CDot1	"talk like a pirate" day was last month	[21:54]
EugenMayer	Lynnwood: it is the right way we did it. We wasted time, but this unites us also.	[21:54]
Lavr_	We should find a name fast and start getting the domain registered and SF project setup.	[21:54]
gmc	CDot1: hmm yes we had a lot of fun on #har @ ircnet that day :)	[21:54]
OliverKrueger	We could use a pirate theme throughout our nextwiki... :)	[21:54]
EugenMayer	Anybody here, who i against "nextwiki" ?	[21:54]
CDot1	yes; priorities. 1) SF project and mailing list(s)	[21:54]
OliverKrueger	nextwiki +1	[21:55]
MichaelDaum	we need press coverage	[21:55]
EugenMayer	CDot1: is a mailing list on freelists.org enaugh or do we need an own one? I will setup one on my server, if needed	[21:55]
Lavr_	I am not sure about nextwiki. Not against it either. But it does not have a marketing kick. Does it?	[21:55]
gmc	http://sourceforge.net/projects/nextwiki/	[21:55]
CDot1	2) press (don;t we need servers first, in case of /.	[21:55]
gmc	Lavr_: its a temporary name, to keep us together for the time being	[21:55]
CDot1	yes, temporary name	[21:55]
gmc	ah yes, i even made sven project admin on it.. shall i create a ml?	[21:56]
Lavr_	yes. But best is to define the name fast and do all the registration fast with the right name. Time is important now.	[21:56]
MichaelDaum	I would like to donate money to pay a professional copywriter developing a nice new name.	[21:56]
CDot1	go for it	[21:56]
OliverKrueger	gmc, yes, pls	[21:56]
***	sreher joined the channel AndreU changed mode: +o sreher	[21:56]
CDot1	sven has a backup of t.o, but how recent I can't say	[21:57]
gmc	hi sven	[21:57]
MichaelDaum	you know all of our products'n plugins will have NextWikiTrickyContrib in it	[21:57]
sreher	hi all	[21:57]
MichaelDaum	Hi Hannover	[21:57]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum: iam not rich, but i will through in what i can. 50€ from my side. I have private things going on which are locking my money right now. Do you have someone in mind which is capable of this?	[21:58]
OliverKrueger	gmc: Do you need addresses?	[21:58]
MichaelDaum	yes a friend of mine is a copywriter	[21:58]
CDot1	english speaking?	[21:58]
MichaelDaum	I can make contact with him to come up with a list of new names that we can add to a voting list	[21:59]
CDot1	sounds good	[21:59]
gmc	It will take 6-24 Hours for your list to be created.	[21:59]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum: as i said, i will donate with my drib.	[21:59]
MichaelDaum	okay. so let's target at some 4-5 candidate names that we then vote on.	[21:59]
EugenMayer	who owns http://www.nextwiki.com/ , on of the guys in here?	[22:00]
gmc	drop me a line on gmc@sonologic.nl if you want to make sure you're on the list	[22:00]
OliverKrueger	regarding press coverage: I have a contact to T3N, a german open source magazine, and to cold contact to Heise, who is doing c't here in germany.	[22:00]
gmc	EugenMayer: sven also i beleive	[22:00]
CDot1	adam hyde might help out, though i suspect he will stay with twiki.org	[22:00]
gmc	oh .. no.. anyway, doesn't matter.. its throw-away anyway CDot1: you think so?	[22:00]
Lavr_	Nextwiki is a registered trademark	[22:01]
AndreU	regarding press coverage: today I phoned with the vice of iX who want an article about twiki	[22:01]
MichaelDaum	OliverKrueger, good. They are Carlo's friends as well.	[22:01]
CDot1	is it? registered to who?	[22:01]
AndreU	I directed him to carlo too :-)	[22:01]
Lavr_	http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=ner2kb.2.1	[22:01]
gmc	peter de laurentis by any chance?	[22:01]
MichaelDaum	good to check in advance. we are burned already.	[22:02]
gmc	anyway, does it matter much? we'll have something better soon	[22:02]
AndreU	gmc, we already have a press announcement, did we?	[22:02]
MichaelDaum	owned by pete.delaurentis@gmail.com, nextwiki.com expires on 07-Oct-09	[22:02]
CDot1	darn. Oh well, plenty more better names around.	[22:02]
Lavr_	What is important now is to get as many from the old community to the new. Every hour counts. For this we need a "home" with the real name.	[22:03]
MichaelDaum	I've got natural-wiki.org/com/net	[22:03]
gmc	Lavr_: true, but picking 'the right name' is a bit tricky to do in a hurry	[22:03]
OliverKrueger	Shall I setup a wiki now?	[22:03]
sreher	your are right Lavr_:	[22:04]
gmc	OliverKrueger: i can give you logon rights to that monster machine i mentioned	[22:04]
AndreU	can´t we not simply do it on the sourceforge site gmc set up?	[22:04]
MichaelDaum	AndreU, +1	[22:04]
EugenMayer	gmc: i can also provide help with the setup	[22:04]
MichaelDaum	let's keep it simple, with a statement of fork in plain index.html	[22:04]
OliverKrueger	Im not familiar with SF. If that works, thats ok. :)	[22:04]
Lavr_	We should not start anything under a wrong name. And especially not one owned by someone else.	[22:04]
AndreU	we have to have a platform so just start and than come up to the public when we worked it out	[22:05]
CDot1	MichaelDaum: natural-wiki will not get my vote. NatWiki? No way. Need a neutral name.	[22:05]
gmc	AndreU: +1 we are not going to solve the name problem here and now	[22:05]
Lavr_	Does not even need Wiki in it IMHO	[22:05]
CDot1	no. Micha is right, statement of fork comes first.	[22:06]
MichaelDaum	does anybody have registered domains that make sense.	[22:06]
GilmarSantosJr	guys, I need to go now but I'll let my irc client open to read the log later. I want to join this new project and help it to grow see you!	[22:06]
AndreU	AndreU has got a domain searching app for twiki which checks a few of them at once	[22:06]
MichaelDaum	GilmarSantosJr, see you	[22:06]
OliverKrueger	as I mentioned, I have: wiki-one.com/net/org	[22:06]
gmc	GilmarSantosJr: thanks!	[22:06]
EugenMayer	MichaelDaum: collaborganize.XX	[22:06]
MichaelDaum	we also have wikiring.org	[22:07]
AndreU	just set up a platform and then we are going to search after a decent name	[22:07]
Lynnwood	it appears that peter will restrict us from posting our fork statement on twiki.org...	[22:07]
AndreU	we need to organize	[22:07]
Lynnwood	so it may be tricky now to get word out.	[22:07]
MichaelDaum	Who has got blogs in here?	[22:07]
OliverKrueger	not me :(	[22:07]
gmc	MichaelDaum: i was already typing on a blog entry on my own blog	[22:07]
MichaelDaum	we need a pointer to the StatementOfFork in it.	[22:08]
CDot1	We can post on the wikiring blog, FWIW what does that statement have to say?	[22:08]
OliverKrueger	wikiring is okay for me.	[22:08]
gmc	good q	[22:08]
LarsEik	I'm just a small admin doing twiki locally at work, but I'm all in with the fork. It feels good and about time. Beetween work and family I will contribute what I can.	[22:09]
EugenMayer	CDot1: 1. why 2. Key-Changes in the fork	[22:09]
MichaelDaum	LarsEik, welcome	[22:09]
EugenMayer	welcome	[22:09]
gmc	LarsEik: thanks! uwiki is being suggested btw :)	[22:10]
sreher	want about sourceforge? We have access to that?	[22:10]
CDot1	please state points that need to be made in the statement of fork. 1) TWiki is now non-free	[22:10]
gmc	sreher: you mean the twiki sf project, or nextwiki? 2) core team is jumping on the fork train for some value of 'core team'	[22:11]
sreher	gmc: twikis sf project	[22:11]
uebera\|\|	regarding the weblog... I could include a short note/link to the head of each page once a new channel/project page has been chosen.	[22:11]
gmc	sreher: that's peter's domain	[22:12]
CDot1	3) new project will aim to do the best for existing twiki users	[22:13]
sreher	gmc: yea twiki.org owns by peter - but the account on sf - he now don't need, or ;-) we need a wiki to organized! - an that fast	[22:13]
LarsEik	3,4) the are other (and better) commercial support options for "next" wiki	[22:13]
MichaelDaum	4) will be true open source not endangered by a single commercial entity owning a trademark	[22:14]
CDot1	Who is doing what, please? MichaelDaum: 4) good one that's probably enough; KISS	[22:14]
MichaelDaum	we also have to play sour grapes a bit	[22:14]
EugenMayer	5) No blind web 2.0 run - Usability is one of the core goals	[22:15]
CDot1	EugenMayer: I think 3) covers that enough; we don't want to prejudge where it is going to go	[22:16]
OliverKrueger	I wonder if Peter and Tom already sold their company....	[22:16]
EugenMayer	CDot1: it was more of "kick on twiki.org/net"	[22:16]
***	drew_stevenson joined the channel	[22:16]
CDot1	OliverKrueger: in the current economic climate? Maybe to Lehman Brothers....	[22:16]
OliverKrueger	:)	[22:16]
EugenMayer	They use the word web 2.0 likes it s a heaven or goal.	[22:16]
CDot1	sure, it's marketing jive	[22:17]
sreher	we need a wiki to organized all the stuff	[22:17]
CDot1	agreed	[22:17]
gmc	ok	[22:17]
EugenMayer	sure exactly, but we want to clarify, that the decisions in here are not "jived", but thought. Thats what 5) was about	[22:17]
sreher	where?	[22:17]
gmc	i fired up a jail (which is sorta like a vm) under nextwiki.org..	[22:17]
CDot1	gmc: url? obvious, I know, but....	[22:18]
gmc	www.nextwiki.org :)	[22:18]
sreher	no at the first time we need a performance server	[22:18]
***	WikiRingBot joined the channel	[22:18]
MichaelDaum	WikiRingBot, hi	[22:19]
WikiRingBot	WikiRingBot does not understand hi	[22:19]
sreher	we have one, but it isn't the fastest at the moment	[22:19]
EugenMayer	hmm, i like twikifork.org as a temporaly name. Its in there, thats a fork and that it is temporally. i like it it Lynnwoods idea	[22:19]
Lynnwood	i just stupidly posted commnent in #twiki	[22:19]
gmc	sreher: 16* 3ghz amd with 16GB of mem fast enough?	[22:19]
sreher	yea - i think so	[22:20]
Lavr_	I now have the mailing list addresses of twiki-dev and twiki-announce as text files. I still had access to those.	[22:20]
CDot1	ok, I have written my personal statement. What about the public one? I would be happy to work with others on it, but am not doing it alone.	[22:20]
gmc	LarsEik: you evil one	[22:20]
CDot1	gmc: can't get to that URL	[22:20]
Lynnwood	i'm about to buy twikifork.com	[22:21]
gmc	s/LarsEik/lavr/ CDot1: working on it	[22:21]
MichaelDaum	Lynnwood, make it .org	[22:21]
Lynnwood	should it? or both	[22:21]
CDot1	Lynnwood: what did you say in #twiki	[22:21]
sreher	gmc: can we set up a wiki on the server?	[22:21]
Lynnwood	suggested to post twikifork.org	[22:21]
gmc	sreher: sure can..	[22:21]
CDot1	just .org. This is an OSS project, don;t need .com, do we?	[22:21]
sreher	ok, how we make it?	[22:21]
EugenMayer	-- [22:18] <Lynnwood> here's a quick thought before i have to run to take family for diner: [22:18] <Lynnwood> That we get domain twikifork.org [22:18] <Lynnwood> or some such as temporary domain [22:18] <Lynnwood> and link to it like made [22:18] <Lynnwood> so that it runs up in google [22:19] <Lynnwood> opps --	[22:22]
Lynnwood	lol	[22:22]
EugenMayer	should i register it?	[22:22]
Lynnwood	i was about to should i go ahead?	[22:23]
gmc	http://www.nextwiki.org/ <== i was preparing that earlier :)	[22:23]
Lavr_	Why provoke using the TWIki string in the name	[22:23]
AndreU	ja, just don´t do that	[22:23]
Lynnwood	simply to catch the searches...	[22:23]
CDot1	I don't want twiki in the name	[22:23]
Lavr_	We just ask to have our bottoms spanked.	[22:23]
MichaelDaum	no web2.0 language please	[22:23]
OliverKrueger	We are forcing him to sue us... ;)	[22:23]
EugenMayer	Lavr_: its clear, where the for is from. Its clear, thats it is temporaly	[22:23]
Lynnwood	on temporary!	[22:23]
CDot1	spanked by whom? Peter's vast legal team?	[22:23]
Lynnwood	it could later redirect to whatever name we choose	[22:23]
sreher	please - we are discuss a name, but we have to discuss how we go on	[22:24]
AndreU	we will appear in google with a subdomain also	[22:24]
gmc	i'll cleat that index.html asap	[22:24]
Lynnwood	the point is that we are already essentially blocked from twiki.org	[22:24]
CDot1	sreher: right. I need a wiki, so I can start a draft statement of fork.	[22:24]
AndreU	and there is also text which could get indexed by google	[22:24]
CDot1	Lynnwood: howso?	[22:24]
Lynnwood	i'm being called :-( hungry kids	[22:24]
sreher	gmc: how we can manage the setup	[22:25]
gmc	i propose two or three people step up now to work on the admin side of things.. EugenMayer already volunteered	[22:25]
Lynnwood	well, i've got to go. if someone else thinks it's worthwhile, go for it	[22:25]
OliverKrueger	gmc: Do you already work on a setup under nextwiki.org?	[22:25]
gmc	OliverKrueger: i already had stuff on there	[22:25]
Lynnwood	the point is: how will people find us if not through twiki?	[22:25]
OliverKrueger	can we use it?	[22:26]
Lynnwood	how to run up our name in association with twiki searches	[22:26]
gmc	OliverKrueger: yes	[22:26]
OliverKrueger	as a temp platform?	[22:26]
gmc	Lynnwood: very good question OliverKrueger: absolutely	[22:26]
OliverKrueger	How can I register?	[22:26]
Lynnwood	sorry, i'm being dragged off by hungry kids	[22:26]
Lavr_	In the first round we need the developers moved over. After that we need a release. No point in getting "customers" as long as we have nothing.	[22:26]
OliverKrueger	bye Lynnwood	[22:27]
AndreU	Lynnwood, we need find solutions for the marketing in our new wiki	[22:27]
gmc	Lynnwood: see you! so, we need a volunteer to help EugenMayer get this setup into shape :)	[22:27]
CDot1	Lavr_: agreed, but we mustn't lose sight of the admin side of things, cos that is what will pull the devs over; "business as usual" for IRC users, for example	[22:28]
EugenMayer	By lyn	[22:28]
sreher	gmc: i can help	[22:28]
MichaelDaum	are there any pointers to blogs already?	[22:28]
gmc	Lavr_: naively, our first release is just twiki trunk with s/twiki/ournewname/ MichaelDaum: i need more fingers :)	[22:29]
EugenMayer	guys should i register twikifork.org now for using in the next week(s) until we have a name? This name is 100% neutral and clears out what forks from which project AND that its temp.	[22:29]
CDot1	how do we tell #twiki users to go to #nextwiki if they want help?	[22:30]
gmc	EugenMayer: twikifork.org go for it (domains are cheap anyway) CDot1: good question..	[22:30]
EugenMayer	do people agree a "bit"?	[22:30]
gmc	CDot1: did you see that q from the guy just yet 'so does everyone go with the new world order' ?	[22:30]
CDot1	gmc: yep need some way to point people to where they can get help	[22:30]
EugenMayer	yeah they type in "twiki fork" and we get the fist hits with the domain..	[22:31]
OliverKrueger	Do you think, Peter will kick us if we do some support on #twiki and tell the people "btw" that there is twiki.fork?	[22:31]
CDot1	perhaps wikiringbot can help. Answer every sentence ending in a question mark with "try asking in #otherchannel instead"	[22:32]
Lavr_	We will reside on #twiki and tell everyone about the fork in the days to come.	[22:32]
OliverKrueger	:) me too, until I get kicked.	[22:32]
CDot1	Lavr_: we will have to, i think.	[22:32]
uebera\|\|	"<Cdot1> how do we tell #twiki users to go to #nextwiki if they want help?" -- does anyone know Colas' position on this? He has the "other" (way more prominent) weblog for #twiki -- if it's mentioned in the header, people will learn about it...	[22:32]
gmc	s/days/weeks/ if not months i know colas is privately skeptical on t.n's course on t.o	[22:32]
***	Wolf_Marbach joined the channel	[22:33]
OliverKrueger	I know the guy from wikimatrix. btw.	[22:33]
CDot1	hey, Wolf! You're up early?	[22:33]
OliverKrueger	Hi Wolf	[22:34]
CDot1	OliverKrueger: could be handy	[22:34]
Wolf_Marbach	hi there nope we now have 12 hours time difference	[22:34]
MichaelDaum	Hi Wolf	[22:34]
CDot1	OliverKrueger: when we have a product, that is	[22:34]
OliverKrueger	yep	[22:34]
CDot1	4.2.4 -> nextwiki 1.0? 0.5?	[22:34]
OliverKrueger	not 2.0? ;)	[22:34]
Wolf_Marbach	Hi Michael, can't see the prvious stuff, so whats up	[22:34]
Lavr_	I would continue the current release numbers. new name 4.2.4	[22:35]
CDot1	Wolf_Marbach: go read recent changes on Codev	[22:35]
uebera\|\|	Would'nt call it 0.5 -- it's stable, isn't it?	[22:35]
Lavr_	It would be cool to have our 4.2.4 out before PeterWiki	[22:35]
gmc	what should be in it?	[22:35]
CDot1	Lavr_: that works for me. Are you going to build it?	[22:35]
OliverKrueger	I think, 4.2.4 is the best solution.	[22:35]
Lavr_	Gladly.	[22:35]
CDot1	Sven was asking (hadn't seen you for a while)	[22:36]
Lavr_	This weekend maybe? If we can close any upsetting bugs.	[22:36]
uebera\|\|	Sorry, but wouldn't 4.2.4 look a bit childish to some eyes? t.n could simply call their next release 5.0, then...	[22:36]
Wolf_Marbach	Got it, so there is a fork now? I should have waited with my book :-(	[22:36]
Lavr_	What about d.t.o? We depend on this in the build contrib	[22:36]
uebera\|\|	I'd state that nextwiki 1.0 was intended to become twiki 4.2.4 somewhere.	[22:36]
Lavr_	And we should not check in a single byte from now on on d.t.o	[22:37]
MichaelDaum	uebera\|\|, I have no doubt that we will be able to create added value much faster than PeterWiki	[22:37]
gmc	uebera\|\|: although 4.2.4 does really make it 'the next twiki'	[22:37]
MichaelDaum	Lavr_, as you know I haven't for some time	[22:37]
uebera\|\|	I don't doubt _that_ either. "1.0" would symbolize a "fresh start", otoh...	[22:37]
MichaelDaum	and we have to make sure that the psycho-block gets left behind we all got used to on that old project	[22:38]
CDot1	right now we have to focus on (1) making sure we have infrastucture (2) making sure we are known about and (3) making people realise we are not trying to make their lives difficult (with some notable exceptions)	[22:38]
LarsEik	so we have hardware and internetline? do we need more, if so I can ask at work for donation of x kbps bandwith and some?	[22:38]
OliverKrueger	Do we have the accounts from t.o.? (password hashes)	[22:38]
CDot1	OliverKrueger: probably; sven's backups, again	[22:39]
OliverKrueger	We could "preregister" accounts for the ppl. :)	[22:39]
Lavr_	I have one which is from the days before the twiki summit On d.t.o we should have a fresh one. You still have admin access for d.t.o?	[22:39]
CDot1	probably. dunno.	[22:40]
OliverKrueger	d.t.o is "ours", right= ?	[22:40]
CDot1	CDot1 checks	[22:40]
Lavr_	I do not	[22:40]
MichaelDaum	Too bad Wolf_Marbach just wrote a book about that old project	[22:41]
gmc	MichaelDaum: a proper book? that's being printed and all?	[22:41]
OliverKrueger	yep Wolf_Marbach: NOW you can be the first one! ;)))))	[22:41]
CDot1	It appears my password has been changed on d.t.o, though I can still get in (don't ask)	[22:41]
Wolf_Marbach	will be published from 1st of November, but we can rewwrite it for the new Wiki	[22:42]
Lavr_	I cannot	[22:42]
MichaelDaum	http://www.amazon.de/TWiki-Einrichten-Verwalten-Wolf-Marbach/dp/3936546584/	[22:42]
OliverKrueger	install ssh keys. and a backdoor. :)	[22:42]
Lavr_	So if you have access making a tarball and get it out may be a good move	[22:42]
***	MayerEugen joined the channel	[22:42]
Wolf_Marbach	@Oliver: I just didn't see the Springer book as really helpful to do anything with TWiki :)	[22:42]
MichaelDaum	well Peter just installed TopicCreatePlugin this morning. which is kind of well insecure: using backticks with user strings inside. no reason to keep that on twiki-security mailing list anymore	[22:43]
gmc	MichaelDaum: doesn't perl barf on that?	[22:43]
OliverKrueger	Wolf_Marbach: hehe, true. Its way to old...	[22:43]
MichaelDaum	gmc, not the way this code is written.	[22:43]
CDot1	Lavr_: I don't have sufficient access, no.	[22:43]
MichaelDaum	he untaints the string in an attempt to separate web and topic names. which makes it non-sub-webish.	[22:44]
gmc	$arg=~/^(.*)$/; $arg=$1; # TODO: properly untaint this :)	[22:44]
Lavr_	I hope Sven still did his backups then.	[22:44]
gmc	we'll know when he wakes up	[22:44]
MichaelDaum	I asked him a while ago	[22:44]
CDot1	any news on that wiki yet?	[22:44]
gmc	CDot1: eugen and sven are hacking away on it we do have a ml it seems: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nextwiki-discuss	[22:45]
CDot1	peter has written on twiki.org: "All other TWiki.org website content is the property of TWiki.org and may not be copied without written approval from the TWiki Community Council." yet the copyright at the bottom of the page states "All material on this collaboration platform is the property of the contributing authors. " I don;t recall ever assigning rights to my content to something called "twiki.org"?	[22:47]
OliverKrueger	Lets ask Peter to remove $MY content entirely.	[22:48]
CDot1	don't hold your breath. That's how Michael Sparks got banned.	[22:48]
gmc	pff	[22:49]
***	peterthoeny joined the channel	[22:51]
OliverKrueger	Hi peterthoeny	[22:51]
MayerEugen	hi peter	[22:52]
peterthoeny	hi oliver	[22:52]
OliverKrueger	Can we help you?	[22:52]
peterthoeny	no, i want to ask you if i can help you?	[22:52]
MayerEugen	sreher: bin im skype	[22:53]
OliverKrueger	Not at the moment. Thanks.	[22:53]
peterthoeny	and i would like to express my thanks for all the work to all who decide not to stick around on twiki.org	[22:53]
AndreU	Ok Peter, I think we all got it now. Enjoy your life	[22:53]
MichaelDaum	Lavr_, CDot1, Lynnwood: Adam just joined in skype. Maybe we organize a call now. Lynnwood is taking care of kids. Lynnwood are you there now?	[22:54]
CDot1	MichaelDaum: sure.	[22:54]
Lavr_	sure	[22:54]
drew_stevenson	if someone can let me know what happens I'd appreciate it drew@umn.edu	[22:57]
gmc	drew_stevenson: shall i put you on the mailing list that we're setting up for now?	[22:58]
drew_stevenson	sure thanks	[22:58]
gmc	np, thanks for hanging around :)	[22:58]
drew_stevenson	what a way to start a week :)	[22:58]
CDot1	It appears I have to "opt in" to TWiki.org in order to maintain plugins	[22:58]
Lavr_	Did you really plan to maintain any there?	[22:59]
drew_stevenson	they do have his name all over them I could see a temptation	[22:59]
CDot1	it also appears that my content on that site is now owned by something called "twiki.org", despite it being contributed "All material on this collaboration platform is the property of the contributing authors"	[23:00]
Lavr_	I think it is essential that we get a site rolling and quickly put a 4.2.4 there along with some new updates to popular plugins.	[23:00]
***	MichaelDaum changed mode: +b peterthoeny!@ peterthoeny kicked off by MichaelDaum : User terminated!	[23:00]
OliverKrueger	thx	[23:00]
MayerEugen	Lucky Luke	[23:01]
gmc	we should reply to peter's last email on twiki-dev ml, to the extent that there is an alternative	[23:01]
OliverKrueger	no.	[23:01]
CDot1	Lavr_: yes. I'm slightly annoyed that I just checked in a big batch of fixes to PublishContrib. I wouldn't have if I'd known this was going to happen.	[23:01]
OliverKrueger	We have the addresses.	[23:02]
Lavr_	Not even my darkest fantasy could have guessed this level of professionel stupidity happen.	[23:02]
gmc	Lavr_: fwiw, i told you so? :)	[23:02]
Lavr_	Sure clever guy ;-)	[23:03]
MichaelDaum	CDot1, I was on strike for long enuf	[23:03]
CDot1	you are all so smart, well done.	[23:03]
MichaelDaum	:(	[23:03]
CDot1	now put some energy into making something good come of this.	[23:03]
MichaelDaum	we will have lots of fun again	[23:04]
OliverKrueger	sure that! :D	[23:04]
Lavr_	I am looking up one name after the other that I come up with and they are all taken. I need to change my brain away from bullshit words Power, Pro, Open, Free, Colab, Empower- Wiki all taken	[23:04]
gmc	Lavr_: there's an entire industry devoted on taking those	[23:05]
Lavr_	What had you guys been working on? You said you had ideas.	[23:05]
MichaelDaum	can I take the mandate to talk to a professional copyrighter to develop a new name?	[23:05]
gmc	cdot went wild with the gaelic dictionary	[23:05]
CDot1	Lynnwood suggested one I liked: "Kith". It means "familiar friends, neighbours, or relatives" and has a double meaning - it is almost a homophone of KISS.	[23:06]
MichaelDaum	Let's start this new project as professional as possible	[23:06]
drew_stevenson	what happened to nextwiki?	[23:06]
Lavr_	nextwiki is a registered trademark	[23:06]
drew_stevenson	my boss walked by and called it a winner oh well there you have it	[23:06]
OliverKrueger	The platform will take a while... Eugen is installed an OS now... s/installed/Installing/	[23:07]
uebera\|\|	What's the hawaiian word for "structured"? ;)	[23:07]
MayerEugen	ballaballa	[23:07]
OliverKrueger	OliverKrueger prefers kith. ;) are the domains still available for such a short url? nope. no matter what we take, it should be short.	[23:08]
uebera\|\|	"StructuredWiki"? Yeah, not that short...	[23:09]
OliverKrueger	hack that 10 times into your keyboard! ;)	[23:10]
MayerEugen	what plugins do we need out of the box ?	[23:10]
OliverKrueger	none We can install plugins later.	[23:10]
MayerEugen	fine.	[23:10]
uebera\|\|	StructuredWiki -> StrucWiki -> Struki? (sounds like Struppi :))	[23:11]
gmc	struki? sounds liek a cheap CCCP car brand or something to me :)	[23:11]
CDot1	suki	[23:11]
***	Soronthar joined the channel	[23:11]
Soronthar	hi... forkers...	[23:12]
OliverKrueger	Hi Raf	[23:12]
gmc	hey there :)	[23:12]
MayerEugen	usr/local/etc	[23:12]
Soronthar	what did I miss?	[23:12]
MayerEugen	CRAZY BSD	[23:12]
uebera\|\|	I'd try to come up with a name that reflects one of the characteristics/strengths of the system...	[23:12]
OliverKrueger	I will try to attach the #twiki_release logs to the topic on t.o.	[23:13]
gmc	bsd is tha bomb	[23:13]
Soronthar	OliverKrueger... you can't right now	[23:13]
gmc	is peter already sanitizing the codev? Soronthar: what's going on?	[23:13]
Soronthar	untill you agree on the term of use, and a TWiki Admin put you back in TWikiCommunityGroup, you cannot do any edit on t.o besides your homepage	[23:15]
OliverKrueger	oic	[23:15]
CDot1	and did you?	[23:15]
Soronthar	terms of use are fair enoug... I just opted in to measure the response time.	[23:15]
gmc	so basically we are all locked out.. nice	[23:15]
Soronthar	yep	[23:16]
Wolf_Marbach	hey its funny i uploaded my firts plugin yesterday and cannot edit anymore This is exactly how I learned doing business with US companies (no affront Lynnwood, I know there are nice guys, too :) )	[23:16]
Soronthar	I kind of like the new skin "design provided by TWIKI.NET"	[23:17]
gmc	Soronthar: you're being sarcastic now, no?	[23:18]
uebera\|\|	But you need more than 1024 pixels to see that properly, else the note is coverd by the jump/search bars ;) s /coverd/covered/ (at least w/ Firefox 3.0.1)	[23:18]
Soronthar	yeah, I notice that	[23:19]
***	eset joined the channel	[23:20]
drew_stevenson	hey does this mean *wiki will finally have upgrade scripts etc? :)	[23:21]
Soronthar	nice speed... i'm a proud member of the TWikiCommunityGroup again... perhaps my irate email had something to do with it.	[23:21]
CDot1	drew_stevenson: sure. If you write them ;-)	[23:21]
gmc	Soronthar: you mean, you're a proud membe rof the TWikiDotnetCommunityGroup :)	[23:21]
Soronthar	I assume that the carpet was sweep under our feet without warning, then?	[23:22]
CDot1	y	[23:22]
drew_stevenson	CDot1; touché	[23:22]
gmc	i should be off to bed soonish.. i'm quite feverish and have a drivers license exam tomorrow (again)	[23:24]
CDot1	gmc: just remember; green = go, amber = go very fast, red = go on, just three more cars then	[23:26]
gmc	:)	[23:26]
***	AndreU joined the channel	[23:26]
LarsEik	Peter is actively using facebook also.. "advertising" for the relaunch.	[23:27]
MayerEugen	CDot1: hehe :) "deadLUNCH" :)	[23:27]
uebera\|\|	gmc: ...and left is where your thumb's right ;)	[23:28]
CDot1	gmc: so, do we have a wiki?	[23:29]
MayerEugen	on my way domainthings left	[23:29]
gmc	MayerEugen: put it under nextwiki for now?	[23:30]
MayerEugen	i dont mind, but as i said	[23:30]
gmc	move the old nextwiki config out of the way, and add it as a ServerAlias in the other conf	[23:30]
MayerEugen	a twikifork.org with just a message could be usefull we dont use it as a name, but as a information page	[23:30]
gmc	people are eager to type away in that fresh new wiki :)	[23:30]
drew_stevenson	one of the first things you can do is have a naming contest	[23:31]
Soronthar	I can provide a subdomain to soronthar.com until a name is decided.	[23:31]
***	krk joined the channel	[23:32]
OliverKrueger	I need some food now. Be back in 45mins.	[23:33]
gmc	i'm grabbing twikifork.org, we'll use that until we have a new name or peter sues us	[23:33]
MayerEugen	Soronthar: i would like a really neutral domain, neutral as possible an clear "temporally"	[23:33]
eset	wikiT.org?	[23:34]
MayerEugen	not bad eset	[23:34]
OliverKrueger	just take any. its temporarily.	[23:34]
eset	also good for wiki Two.0	[23:34]
Wolf_Marbach	TeeWiki	[23:34]
***	SvenDowideit joined the channel SvenDowideit changed topic: http://nextwiki.org ?	[23:35]
Lavr_	Welcome to the new world	[23:35]
CDot1	OK, the team formerly known as the IGT has just had a skype call	[23:35]
SvenDowideit	i fell very sorry for you optimistic peoples	[23:35]
CDot1	we don;t have a mandate to act as a leadership group, but we had to wrap the business of TWiki	[23:36]
SvenDowideit	I have to read the nite's irc	[23:36]
CDot1	SvenDowideit: do you have all the logs you need?	[23:36]
SvenDowideit	yes, and to post a summary both on t.o and publically i think so	[23:36]
MayerEugen	CDot1: We and YU are building a fork. No need for to much mandates in here..	[23:36]
CDot1	great MayerEugen: agreed.	[23:36]
SvenDowideit	now to work out howto sell this to my clients	[23:37]
MayerEugen	SvenDowideit: i dont think you can put something on t.o anymore	[23:37]
SvenDowideit	mmm	[23:37]
Soronthar	I can :)	[23:37]
Lavr_	Sven you have to say "Heil Peter" to post on TWiki.org the regular way. We have all lost our accounts on d.t.o by the way-	[23:37]
MayerEugen	Soronthar: you bad guy you :)	[23:37]
SvenDowideit	we have? what about on d.t.o ok bigger issue	[23:37]
Lavr_	Please try your access also	[23:38]
SvenDowideit	cna the igt please send an email to jon of sin sun	[23:38]
CDot1	SvenDowideit: my password has been changed on d.t.o. No idea about yours.	[23:38]
SvenDowideit	and ask if they are happy to have t.n missappropriate the servers donated to the real t.o community?	[23:38]
CDot1	I can still get in using ssh keys, but obviously no sudo	[23:38]
Soronthar	if you want to stir thing up while leaving, I suggest the IGN to send a public letter to the T.N investors...	[23:39]
SvenDowideit	interesting	[23:39]
CDot1	I suggest you stop suggesting things for other people to do	[23:39]
SvenDowideit	i can't get in with either ssh keys nor pwd CDot1, ok	[23:39]
Soronthar	brb	[23:40]
CDot1	SvenDowideit: maybe I hit it just as the pws were changed, i dunno.	[23:40]
Lavr_	When is our last backup from?	[23:40]
SvenDowideit	last night	[23:40]
CDot1	good enough	[23:40]
SvenDowideit	(checking)	[23:40]
Lavr_	You have that? Good. Then the damage is minimal	[23:41]
SvenDowideit	I'll set them both up on DH today legacy.nextwiki.org and bugs.nextwiki.org :)	[23:41]
Lavr_	We need a different name than nextwiki soon (for your info) - nextwiki is a registered trademark.	[23:42]
Wolf_Marbach	NexTwiki?	[23:42]
SvenDowideit	y, its a placeholder	[23:42]
gmc	and/or twikifork.org	[23:43]
SvenDowideit	have you got those domains? they'd be useful for media	[23:43]
gmc	which ones?	[23:45]
SvenDowideit	twikifork	[23:45]
drew_stevenson	I'm sure it's trademarked but google doesn't find anything for "starwiki" (it's a meh name but I thought I'd share before going home" see I can't even use quotes right anymore...	[23:46]
SvenDowideit	grin almost 10am, and i'm ready for a good lie down	[23:46]
drew_stevenson	5:47 CST	[23:47]
gmc	f*ck..	[23:47]
drew_stevenson	er 17:47 for the kids	[23:47]
SvenDowideit	nite wow to the privacy policy	[23:49]
CDot1	SvenDowideit: did you sign?	[23:50]
SvenDowideit	why would i?	[23:50]
Wolf_Marbach	what privacy policy	[23:53]
SvenDowideit	http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/TWikiPrivacyStatement#foo_1	[23:54]
Wolf_Marbach	thanks sven	[23:54]
MayerEugen	what the hell is wrong with the VI under freebsd..	[23:57]
***	sayotte joined the channel	[23:57]
sayotte	sayotte groans	[23:58]
uebera\|\|	MayerEugen: emacs is your friend... :p	[23:58]
MayerEugen	emacs is not my friend at all. !!!!	[23:58]
uebera\|\|	Ah, I see... you're one of "them"... ;)	[23:59]

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