#twiki_fork 2008-10-27,Mon

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WhoWhatWhen
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OliverKruegerMoin. [21:40]
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EugenMayerhello fellows [21:41]
OliverKruegerFinally.... [21:41]
gmchey [21:41]
Lavr_Hey. [21:42]
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[21:42]
CDot1hi all [21:42]
AndreUhi [21:42]
Lavr_We need fast: Name, domain, server [21:42]
EugenMayerOk, before any name, councel stuff starts. I suggest, every last councel member keeps its seets, the community has elected them. In addition, who will host ( i will help here ) [21:43]
CDot1ok, so, working name Nextwiki? [21:43]
gmcCDot1: yes, that would save me on shirt-printing costs [21:43]
MichaelDaumNextWiki is ok. [21:43]
Lavr_I would like a real name we can stick to fast. We need to build up a new brand fast. [21:43]
EugenMayerGuys, do we need the name disc. now? Is it really important for the poeple now to choose "i fork with them"? [21:43]
GilmarSantosJrhi all [21:43]
CDot1sven owns the domain; he may donate it, remains to be seen
but it's a working name, in case we find something better.
server?
[21:43]
EugenMayerI will try to host [21:44]
MichaelDaumI've registered natural-wiki.org [21:44]
EugenMayeras long as i can ( performance wise ) [21:44]
CDot1EugenMayer: could be a BIG load [21:44]
OliverKruegerI can donate some server resources. [21:44]
gmcnextwiki.org has address 82.94.245.62 <== that's one of my ips.. we should put something up there.. [21:44]
Lavr_Oliver also said at some point that he could host [21:44]
EugenMayerI know, i try what i can Crawford. [21:44]
CDot1really need some decent HW [21:44]
OliverKruegerI have wiki-one.net/com/org [21:45]
gmcanyway, name is not so important now i guess [21:45]
AndreUwe can also provide some host capacity [21:45]
EugenMayerMy HW is not decent at this point. The HW is used also, so iam just maybe a time soloution [21:45]
gmci've got some spare server capacity for the moment [21:45]
AndreUthink we need to work out some kind of load balancing for the future [21:45]
gmclets get that sorted out later, and set it up distributed properly from the start [21:45]
EugenMayer5,2GHZ x2 / 2GB ram / raid1 / no traffic limit is what i can give right now [21:46]
AndreUEugen, this is great [21:46]
gmcEugenMayer: i've got 16x3ghz amd, 16GB ram, 4x1TB raid5 idling atm :)
same with the traffic
[21:46]
EugenMayergmc: crazy guy! [21:46]
AndreUdistributed can come a bit later, we are used to a slow server... [21:46]
OliverKruegerMy server is smaller. [21:46]
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[21:47]
AndreUyou people looked at twiki.net? [21:47]
gmcAndreU: :) [21:47]
uebera||Hi... still catching up... [21:47]
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EugenMayerok, iam up to help setting up and administrate. I will try to make my plugins 4.2.3 ready and will contribute as soon as possible. [21:47]
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AndreUI guess they will start doing marketing with the things they prepared in the last months [21:47]
OliverKruegerPeter? [21:47]
PeterThoeny_hi olver [21:47]
MichaelDaumPeterThoeny_, what do you want here? [21:47]
OliverKruegerDo you want to fork, too? [21:48]
EugenMayercould we stop beein childish? [21:48]
PeterThoeny_just curiosity :-) [21:48]
gmcPeterThoeny_: would you kindly consider vacating this channel? [21:48]
Lavr_Noone with a sain mind will accept the twiki.net insanity conditions. [21:48]
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[21:48]
EugenMayerLavr_: there will be people, people who have never been part of the serious community and never really done more then discussing. This people will maybe do this, but we will not need them to much either here [21:49]
MichaelDaumNow, everybody can kickban, you Peter. [21:49]
EugenMayerIam the jungest, i should start actuall. You can call it "its his age, forgive him" [21:49]
Lavr_Hey. The fork is an open source project. Even Peter can join. [21:49]
PeterThoeny_please consider a name other than twiki [21:49]
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gmcthanks EugenMayer [21:50]
AndreUMichael, you mean do it "the Peter way"? [21:50]
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PeterThoeny_ kicked off by gmc : gmc
[21:50]
gmcdoesn't take a hint [21:50]
CDot1quit it; it's not important
he is as entitled to be in this channel as anyone else
[21:50]
AndreUlet him in! I want to kick him too! [21:50]
EugenMayerLavr_: iam fully with you, but he is trying just to provacate with his stay here [21:50]
CDot1he is not relevant [21:50]
Lavr_No. No more Peterphobia [21:50]
OliverKruegerI think, the name discussion is important now, cause we can unite behind a name. :) [21:51]
EugenMayerOk lets keep on the points important. [21:51]
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[21:51]
EugenMayerOk does anyone has a proper load balancing idea for the new "nextwiki" or even a solution? [21:51]
CDot1I have a list of names that I would be happy to share with everyone, that we worked out before (and during) the summit. [21:51]
AndreUI like nextwiki as a working name [21:52]
Lavr_Please share those names CDot [21:52]
OliverKruegercool [21:52]
EugenMayerCDot1: lead on [21:52]
CDot1not now; can anyone set up a mailing list?
register a project on sourceforge?
[21:52]
Lavr_Do not worry too much about the load on our new server. The old t.o server was a piece of crap. That is why it was so slow. [21:52]
gmci think i already registered nextwiki.org lemme check
s/nextwiki.org/nextwiki on sf/
[21:52]
Lynnwooddeath to twiki! long live nextwiki!! [21:53]
OliverKruegerHi Lynnwood [21:53]
EugenMayerfreelists.org? [21:53]
Lynnwoodgawd, why did we waste so long thinking these folks would going to get it? [21:53]
MichaelDaumLynnwood, you sound like an old pirate [21:53]
***AndreU changed mode: +o Lynnwood [21:54]
CDot1"talk like a pirate" day was last month [21:54]
EugenMayerLynnwood: it is the right way we did it. We wasted time, but this unites us also. [21:54]
Lavr_We should find a name fast and start getting the domain registered and SF project setup. [21:54]
gmcCDot1: hmm yes we had a lot of fun on #har @ ircnet that day :) [21:54]
OliverKruegerWe could use a pirate theme throughout our nextwiki... :) [21:54]
EugenMayerAnybody here, who i against "nextwiki" ? [21:54]
CDot1yes; priorities. 1) SF project and mailing list(s) [21:54]
OliverKruegernextwiki +1 [21:55]
MichaelDaumwe need press coverage [21:55]
EugenMayerCDot1: is a mailing list on freelists.org enaugh or do we need an own one? I will setup one on my server, if needed [21:55]
Lavr_I am not sure about nextwiki. Not against it either. But it does not have a marketing kick. Does it? [21:55]
gmchttp://sourceforge.net/projects/nextwiki/ [21:55]
CDot12) press (don;t we need servers first, in case of /. [21:55]
gmcLavr_: its a temporary name, to keep us together for the time being [21:55]
CDot1yes, temporary name [21:55]
gmcah yes, i even made sven project admin on it..
shall i create a ml?
[21:56]
Lavr_yes. But best is to define the name fast and do all the registration fast with the right name. Time is important now. [21:56]
MichaelDaumI would like to donate money to pay a professional copywriter developing a nice new name. [21:56]
CDot1go for it [21:56]
OliverKruegergmc, yes, pls [21:56]
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[21:56]
CDot1sven has a backup of t.o, but how recent I can't say [21:57]
gmchi sven [21:57]
MichaelDaumyou know all of our products'n plugins will have NextWikiTrickyContrib in it [21:57]
sreherhi all [21:57]
MichaelDaumHi Hannover [21:57]
EugenMayerMichaelDaum: iam not rich, but i will through in what i can. 50€ from my side. I have private things going on which are locking my money right now. Do you have someone in mind which is capable of this? [21:58]
OliverKruegergmc: Do you need addresses? [21:58]
MichaelDaumyes a friend of mine is a copywriter [21:58]
CDot1english speaking? [21:58]
MichaelDaumI can make contact with him to come up with a list of new names that we can add to a voting list [21:59]
CDot1sounds good [21:59]
gmcIt will take 6-24 Hours for your list to be created. [21:59]
EugenMayerMichaelDaum: as i said, i will donate with my drib. [21:59]
MichaelDaumokay. so let's target at some 4-5 candidate names that we then vote on. [21:59]
EugenMayerwho owns http://www.nextwiki.com/ , on of the guys in here? [22:00]
gmcdrop me a line on gmc@sonologic.nl if you want to make sure you're on the list [22:00]
OliverKruegerregarding press coverage: I have a contact to T3N, a german open source magazine, and to cold contact to Heise, who is doing c't here in germany. [22:00]
gmcEugenMayer: sven also i beleive [22:00]
CDot1adam hyde might help out, though i suspect he will stay with twiki.org [22:00]
gmcoh .. no.. anyway, doesn't matter.. its throw-away anyway
CDot1: you think so?
[22:00]
Lavr_Nextwiki is a registered trademark [22:01]
AndreUregarding press coverage: today I phoned with the vice of iX who want an article about twiki [22:01]
MichaelDaumOliverKrueger, good. They are Carlo's friends as well. [22:01]
CDot1is it? registered to who? [22:01]
AndreUI directed him to carlo too :-) [22:01]
Lavr_http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=ner2kb.2.1 [22:01]
gmcpeter de laurentis by any chance? [22:01]
MichaelDaumgood to check in advance. we are burned already. [22:02]
gmcanyway, does it matter much? we'll have something better soon [22:02]
AndreUgmc, we already have a press announcement, did we? [22:02]
MichaelDaumowned by pete.delaurentis@gmail.com, nextwiki.com expires on 07-Oct-09 [22:02]
CDot1darn. Oh well, plenty more better names around. [22:02]
Lavr_What is important now is to get as many from the old community to the new. Every hour counts. For this we need a "home" with the real name. [22:03]
MichaelDaumI've got natural-wiki.org/com/net [22:03]
gmcLavr_: true, but picking 'the right name' is a bit tricky to do in a hurry [22:03]
OliverKruegerShall I setup a wiki now? [22:03]
sreheryour are right Lavr_: [22:04]
gmcOliverKrueger: i can give you logon rights to that monster machine i mentioned [22:04]
AndreUcan´t we not simply do it on the sourceforge site gmc set up? [22:04]
MichaelDaumAndreU, +1 [22:04]
EugenMayergmc: i can also provide help with the setup [22:04]
MichaelDaumlet's keep it simple, with a statement of fork in plain index.html [22:04]
OliverKruegerIm not familiar with SF. If that works, thats ok. :) [22:04]
Lavr_We should not start anything under a wrong name. And especially not one owned by someone else. [22:04]
AndreUwe have to have a platform
so just start and than come up to the public when we worked it out
[22:05]
CDot1MichaelDaum: natural-wiki will not get my vote. NatWiki? No way. Need a neutral name. [22:05]
gmcAndreU: +1
we are not going to solve the name problem here and now
[22:05]
Lavr_Does not even need Wiki in it IMHO [22:05]
CDot1no. Micha is right, statement of fork comes first. [22:06]
MichaelDaumdoes anybody have registered domains that make sense. [22:06]
GilmarSantosJrguys, I need to go now but I'll let my irc client open to read the log later. I want to join this new project and help it to grow
see you!
[22:06]
AndreUAndreU has got a domain searching app for twiki which checks a few of them at once [22:06]
MichaelDaumGilmarSantosJr, see you [22:06]
OliverKruegeras I mentioned, I have: wiki-one.com/net/org [22:06]
gmcGilmarSantosJr: thanks! [22:06]
EugenMayerMichaelDaum: collaborganize.XX [22:06]
MichaelDaumwe also have wikiring.org [22:07]
AndreUjust set up a platform and then we are going to search after a decent name [22:07]
Lynnwoodit appears that peter will restrict us from posting our fork statement on twiki.org... [22:07]
AndreUwe need to organize [22:07]
Lynnwoodso it may be tricky now to get word out. [22:07]
MichaelDaumWho has got blogs in here? [22:07]
OliverKruegernot me :( [22:07]
gmcMichaelDaum: i was already typing on a blog entry on my own blog [22:07]
MichaelDaumwe need a pointer to the StatementOfFork in it. [22:08]
CDot1We can post on the wikiring blog, FWIW
what does that statement have to say?
[22:08]
OliverKruegerwikiring is okay for me. [22:08]
gmcgood q [22:08]
LarsEikI'm just a small admin doing twiki locally at work, but I'm all in with the fork. It feels good and about time. Beetween work and family I will contribute what I can. [22:09]
EugenMayerCDot1: 1. why 2. Key-Changes in the fork [22:09]
MichaelDaumLarsEik, welcome [22:09]
EugenMayerwelcome [22:09]
gmcLarsEik: thanks!
uwiki is being suggested btw :)
[22:10]
sreherwant about sourceforge? We have access to that? [22:10]
CDot1please state points that need to be made in the statement of fork.
1) TWiki is now non-free
[22:10]
gmcsreher: you mean the twiki sf project, or nextwiki?
2) core team is jumping on the fork train
for some value of 'core team'
[22:11]
srehergmc: twikis sf project [22:11]
uebera||regarding the weblog... I could include a short note/link to the head of each page once a new channel/project page has been chosen. [22:11]
gmcsreher: that's peter's domain [22:12]
CDot13) new project will aim to do the best for existing twiki users [22:13]
srehergmc: yea twiki.org owns by peter - but the account on sf - he now don't need, or ;-)
we need a wiki to organized! - an that fast
[22:13]
LarsEik3,4) the are other (and better) commercial support options for "next" wiki [22:13]
MichaelDaum4) will be true open source not endangered by a single commercial entity owning a trademark [22:14]
CDot1Who is doing what, please?
MichaelDaum: 4) good one
that's probably enough; KISS
[22:14]
MichaelDaumwe also have to play sour grapes a bit [22:14]
EugenMayer5) No blind web 2.0 run - Usability is one of the core goals [22:15]
CDot1EugenMayer: I think 3) covers that enough; we don't want to prejudge where it is going to go [22:16]
OliverKruegerI wonder if Peter and Tom already sold their company.... [22:16]
EugenMayerCDot1: it was more of "kick on twiki.org/net" [22:16]
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CDot1OliverKrueger: in the current economic climate? Maybe to Lehman Brothers.... [22:16]
OliverKrueger:) [22:16]
EugenMayerThey use the word web 2.0 likes it s a heaven or goal. [22:16]
CDot1sure, it's marketing jive [22:17]
sreherwe need a wiki to organized all the stuff [22:17]
CDot1agreed [22:17]
gmcok [22:17]
EugenMayersure exactly, but we want to clarify, that the decisions in here are not "jived", but thought. Thats what 5) was about [22:17]
sreherwhere? [22:17]
gmci fired up a jail (which is sorta like a vm) under nextwiki.org.. [22:17]
CDot1gmc: url?
obvious, I know, but....
[22:18]
gmcwww.nextwiki.org :) [22:18]
sreherno at the first time we need a performance server [22:18]
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MichaelDaumWikiRingBot, hi [22:19]
WikiRingBotWikiRingBot does not understand hi [22:19]
sreherwe have one, but it isn't the fastest at the moment [22:19]
EugenMayerhmm, i like twikifork.org as a temporaly name. Its in there, thats a fork and that it is temporally. i like it
it Lynnwoods idea
[22:19]
Lynnwoodi just stupidly posted commnent in #twiki [22:19]
gmcsreher: 16* 3ghz amd with 16GB of mem fast enough? [22:19]
sreheryea - i think so [22:20]
Lavr_I now have the mailing list addresses of twiki-dev and twiki-announce as text files. I still had access to those. [22:20]
CDot1ok, I have written my personal statement. What about the public one? I would be happy to work with others on it, but am not doing it alone. [22:20]
gmcLarsEik: you evil one [22:20]
CDot1gmc: can't get to that URL [22:20]
Lynnwoodi'm about to buy twikifork.com [22:21]
gmcs/LarsEik/lavr/
CDot1: working on it
[22:21]
MichaelDaumLynnwood, make it .org [22:21]
Lynnwoodshould it? or both [22:21]
CDot1Lynnwood: what did you say in #twiki [22:21]
srehergmc: can we set up a wiki on the server? [22:21]
Lynnwoodsuggested to post twikifork.org [22:21]
gmcsreher: sure can.. [22:21]
CDot1just .org. This is an OSS project, don;t need .com, do we? [22:21]
sreherok, how we make it? [22:21]
EugenMayer--
[22:18] <Lynnwood> here's a quick thought before i have to run to take family for diner:
[22:18] <Lynnwood> That we get domain twikifork.org
[22:18] <Lynnwood> or some such as temporary domain
[22:18] <Lynnwood> and link to it like made
[22:18] <Lynnwood> so that it runs up in google
[22:19] <Lynnwood> opps
--
[22:22]
Lynnwoodlol [22:22]
EugenMayershould i register it? [22:22]
Lynnwoodi was about to
should i go ahead?
[22:23]
gmchttp://www.nextwiki.org/ <== i was preparing that earlier :) [22:23]
Lavr_Why provoke using the TWIki string in the name [22:23]
AndreUja, just don´t do that [22:23]
Lynnwoodsimply to catch the searches... [22:23]
CDot1I don't *want* twiki in the name [22:23]
Lavr_We just ask to have our bottoms spanked. [22:23]
MichaelDaumno web2.0 language please [22:23]
OliverKruegerWe are forcing him to sue us... ;) [22:23]
EugenMayerLavr_: its clear, where the for is from. Its clear, thats it is temporaly [22:23]
Lynnwoodon temporary! [22:23]
CDot1spanked by whom? Peter's vast legal team? [22:23]
Lynnwoodit could later redirect to whatever name we choose [22:23]
sreherplease - we are discuss a name, but we have to discuss how we go on [22:24]
AndreUwe will appear in google with a subdomain also [22:24]
gmci'll cleat that index.html asap [22:24]
Lynnwoodthe point is that we are already essentially blocked from twiki.org [22:24]
CDot1sreher: right. I need a wiki, so I can start a draft statement of fork. [22:24]
AndreUand there is also text which could get indexed by google [22:24]
CDot1Lynnwood: howso? [22:24]
Lynnwoodi'm being called :-(
hungry kids
[22:24]
srehergmc: how we can manage the setup [22:25]
gmci propose two or three people step up now to work on the admin side of things..
EugenMayer already volunteered
[22:25]
Lynnwoodwell, i've got to go. if someone else thinks it's worthwhile, go for it [22:25]
OliverKruegergmc: Do you already work on a setup under nextwiki.org? [22:25]
gmcOliverKrueger: i already had stuff on there [22:25]
Lynnwoodthe point is: how will people find us if not through twiki? [22:25]
OliverKruegercan we use it? [22:26]
Lynnwoodhow to run up our name in association with twiki searches [22:26]
gmcOliverKrueger: yes [22:26]
OliverKruegeras a temp platform? [22:26]
gmcLynnwood: very good question
OliverKrueger: absolutely
[22:26]
OliverKruegerHow can I register? [22:26]
Lynnwoodsorry, i'm being dragged off by hungry kids [22:26]
Lavr_In the first round we need the developers moved over. After that we need a release. No point in getting "customers" as long as we have nothing. [22:26]
OliverKruegerbye Lynnwood [22:27]
AndreULynnwood, we need find solutions for the marketing in our new wiki [22:27]
gmcLynnwood: see you!
so, we need a volunteer to help EugenMayer get this setup into shape :)
[22:27]
CDot1Lavr_: agreed, but we mustn't lose sight of the admin side of things, cos that is what will pull the devs over; "business as usual" for IRC users, for example [22:28]
EugenMayerBy lyn [22:28]
srehergmc: i can help [22:28]
MichaelDaumare there any pointers to blogs already? [22:28]
gmcLavr_: naively, our first release is just twiki trunk with s/twiki/ournewname/
MichaelDaum: i need more fingers :)
[22:29]
EugenMayerguys should i register twikifork.org now for using in the next week(s) until we have a name? This name is 100% neutral and clears out what forks from which project AND that its temp. [22:29]
CDot1how do we tell #twiki users to go to #nextwiki if they want help? [22:30]
gmcEugenMayer: twikifork.org go for it (domains are cheap anyway)
CDot1: good question..
[22:30]
EugenMayerdo people agree a "bit"? [22:30]
gmcCDot1: did you see that q from the guy just yet 'so does everyone go with the new world order' ? [22:30]
CDot1gmc: yep
need some way to point people to where they can get help
[22:30]
EugenMayeryeah they type in "twiki fork"
and we get the fist hits with the domain..
[22:31]
OliverKruegerDo you think, Peter will kick us if we do some support on #twiki and tell the people "btw" that there is twiki.fork? [22:31]
CDot1perhaps wikiringbot can help. Answer every sentence ending in a question mark with "try asking in #otherchannel instead" [22:32]
Lavr_We will reside on #twiki and tell everyone about the fork in the days to come. [22:32]
OliverKrueger:)
me too, until I get kicked.
[22:32]
CDot1Lavr_: we will have to, i think. [22:32]
uebera||"<Cdot1> how do we tell #twiki users to go to #nextwiki if they want help?" -- does anyone know Colas' position on this? He has the "other" (way more prominent) weblog for #twiki -- if it's mentioned in the header, people will learn about it... [22:32]
gmcs/days/weeks/
if not months
i know colas is privately skeptical on t.n's course on t.o
[22:32]
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OliverKruegerI know the guy from wikimatrix. btw. [22:33]
CDot1hey, Wolf! You're up early? [22:33]
OliverKruegerHi Wolf [22:34]
CDot1OliverKrueger: could be handy [22:34]
Wolf_Marbachhi there nope we now have 12 hours time difference [22:34]
MichaelDaumHi Wolf [22:34]
CDot1OliverKrueger: when we have a product, that is [22:34]
OliverKruegeryep [22:34]
CDot14.2.4 -> nextwiki 1.0?
0.5?
[22:34]
OliverKruegernot 2.0? ;) [22:34]
Wolf_MarbachHi Michael, can't see the prvious stuff, so whats up [22:34]
Lavr_I would continue the current release numbers. new name 4.2.4 [22:35]
CDot1Wolf_Marbach: go read recent changes on Codev [22:35]
uebera||Would'nt call it *0.5* -- it's stable, isn't it? [22:35]
Lavr_It would be cool to have our 4.2.4 out before PeterWiki [22:35]
gmcwhat should be in it? [22:35]
CDot1Lavr_: that works for me. Are you going to build it? [22:35]
OliverKruegerI think, 4.2.4 is the best solution. [22:35]
Lavr_Gladly. [22:35]
CDot1Sven was asking (hadn't seen you for a while) [22:36]
Lavr_This weekend maybe? If we can close any upsetting bugs. [22:36]
uebera||Sorry, but wouldn't 4.2.4 look a bit childish to some eyes? t.n could simply call their next release 5.0, then... [22:36]
Wolf_MarbachGot it, so there is a fork now? I should have waited with my book :-( [22:36]
Lavr_What about d.t.o? We depend on this in the build contrib [22:36]
uebera||I'd state that nextwiki 1.0 was intended to become twiki 4.2.4 somewhere. [22:36]
Lavr_And we should not check in a single byte from now on on d.t.o [22:37]
MichaelDaumuebera||, I have no doubt that we will be able to create added value much faster than PeterWiki [22:37]
gmcuebera||: although 4.2.4 does really make it 'the next twiki' [22:37]
MichaelDaumLavr_, as you know I haven't for some time [22:37]
uebera||I don't doubt _that_ either.
"1.0" would symbolize a "fresh start", otoh...
[22:37]
MichaelDaumand we have to make sure that the psycho-block gets left behind we all got used to on that old project [22:38]
CDot1right now we have to focus on (1) making sure we have infrastucture (2) making sure we are known about and (3) making people realise we are not trying to make their lives difficult (with some notable exceptions) [22:38]
LarsEikso we have hardware and internetline? do we need more, if so I can ask at work for donation of x kbps bandwith and some? [22:38]
OliverKruegerDo we have the accounts from t.o.? (password hashes) [22:38]
CDot1OliverKrueger: probably; sven's backups, again [22:39]
OliverKruegerWe could "preregister" accounts for the ppl. :) [22:39]
Lavr_I have one which is from the days before the twiki summit
On d.t.o we should have a fresh one. You still have admin access for d.t.o?
[22:39]
CDot1probably. dunno. [22:40]
OliverKruegerd.t.o is "ours", right=
?
[22:40]
CDot1CDot1 checks [22:40]
Lavr_I do not [22:40]
MichaelDaumToo bad Wolf_Marbach just wrote a book about that old project [22:41]
gmcMichaelDaum: a proper book? that's being printed and all? [22:41]
OliverKruegeryep
Wolf_Marbach: NOW you can be the first one! ;)))))
[22:41]
CDot1It appears my password has been changed on d.t.o, though I can still get in (don't ask) [22:41]
Wolf_Marbachwill be published from 1st of November, but we can rewwrite it for the new Wiki [22:42]
Lavr_I cannot [22:42]
MichaelDaumhttp://www.amazon.de/TWiki-Einrichten-Verwalten-Wolf-Marbach/dp/3936546584/ [22:42]
OliverKruegerinstall ssh keys.
and a backdoor. :)
[22:42]
Lavr_So if you have access making a tarball and get it out may be a good move [22:42]
***MayerEugen joined the channel [22:42]
Wolf_Marbach@Oliver: I just didn't see the Springer book as really helpful to do anything with TWiki :) [22:42]
MichaelDaumwell Peter just installed TopicCreatePlugin this morning. which is kind of well insecure: using backticks with user strings inside.
no reason to keep that on twiki-security mailing list anymore
[22:43]
gmcMichaelDaum: doesn't perl barf on that? [22:43]
OliverKruegerWolf_Marbach: hehe, true. Its way to old... [22:43]
MichaelDaumgmc, not the way this code is written. [22:43]
CDot1Lavr_: I don't have sufficient access, no. [22:43]
MichaelDaumhe untaints the string in an attempt to separate web and topic names. which makes it non-sub-webish. [22:44]
gmc$arg=~/^(.*)$/; $arg=$1; # TODO: properly untaint this
:)
[22:44]
Lavr_I hope Sven still did his backups then. [22:44]
gmcwe'll know when he wakes up [22:44]
MichaelDaumI asked him a while ago [22:44]
CDot1any news on that wiki yet? [22:44]
gmcCDot1: eugen and sven are hacking away on it
we do have a ml it seems:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nextwiki-discuss
[22:45]
CDot1peter has written on twiki.org: "All other TWiki.org website content is the property of TWiki.org and may not be copied without written approval from the TWiki Community Council."
yet the copyright at the bottom of the page states "All material on this collaboration platform is the property of the contributing authors. "
I don;t recall ever assigning rights to my content to something called "twiki.org"?
[22:47]
OliverKruegerLets ask Peter to remove $MY content entirely. [22:48]
CDot1don't hold your breath. That's how Michael Sparks got banned. [22:48]
gmcpff [22:49]
***peterthoeny joined the channel [22:51]
OliverKruegerHi peterthoeny [22:51]
MayerEugenhi peter [22:52]
peterthoenyhi oliver [22:52]
OliverKruegerCan we help you? [22:52]
peterthoenyno, i want to ask you if i can help you? [22:52]
MayerEugensreher: bin im skype [22:53]
OliverKruegerNot at the moment. Thanks. [22:53]
peterthoenyand i would like to express my thanks for all the work to all who decide not to stick around on twiki.org [22:53]
AndreUOk Peter, I think we all got it now. Enjoy your life [22:53]
MichaelDaumLavr_, CDot1, Lynnwood: Adam just joined in skype. Maybe we organize a call now. Lynnwood is taking care of kids. Lynnwood are you there now? [22:54]
CDot1MichaelDaum: sure. [22:54]
Lavr_sure [22:54]
drew_stevensonif someone can let me know what happens I'd appreciate it
drew@umn.edu
[22:57]
gmcdrew_stevenson: shall i put you on the mailing list that we're setting up for now? [22:58]
drew_stevensonsure
thanks
[22:58]
gmcnp, thanks for hanging around :) [22:58]
drew_stevensonwhat a way to start a week :) [22:58]
CDot1It appears I have to "opt in" to TWiki.org in order to maintain plugins [22:58]
Lavr_Did you really plan to maintain any there? [22:59]
drew_stevensonthey do have his name all over them
I could see a temptation
[22:59]
CDot1it also appears that my content on that site is now owned by something called "twiki.org", despite it being contributed "All material on this collaboration platform is the property of the contributing authors" [23:00]
Lavr_I think it is essential that we get a site rolling and quickly put a 4.2.4 there along with some new updates to popular plugins. [23:00]
***MichaelDaum changed mode: +b peterthoeny!*@*
peterthoeny kicked off by MichaelDaum : User terminated!
[23:00]
OliverKruegerthx [23:00]
MayerEugenLucky Luke [23:01]
gmcwe should reply to peter's last email on twiki-dev ml, to the extent that there is an alternative [23:01]
OliverKruegerno. [23:01]
CDot1Lavr_: yes. I'm slightly annoyed that I just checked in a big batch of fixes to PublishContrib. I wouldn't have if I'd known this was going to happen. [23:01]
OliverKruegerWe have the addresses. [23:02]
Lavr_Not even my darkest fantasy could have guessed this level of professionel stupidity happen. [23:02]
gmcLavr_: fwiw, i told you so? :) [23:02]
Lavr_Sure clever guy ;-) [23:03]
MichaelDaumCDot1, I was on strike for long enuf [23:03]
CDot1you are all so smart, well done. [23:03]
MichaelDaum:( [23:03]
CDot1now put some energy into making something good come of this. [23:03]
MichaelDaumwe will have lots of fun again [23:04]
OliverKruegersure that! :D [23:04]
Lavr_I am looking up one name after the other that I come up with and they are all taken. I need to change my brain away from bullshit words
Power, Pro, Open, Free, Colab, Empower- Wiki all taken
[23:04]
gmcLavr_: there's an entire industry devoted on taking those [23:05]
Lavr_What had you guys been working on? You said you had ideas. [23:05]
MichaelDaumcan I take the mandate to talk to a professional copyrighter to develop a new name? [23:05]
gmccdot went wild with the gaelic dictionary [23:05]
CDot1Lynnwood suggested one I liked: "Kith". It means "familiar friends, neighbours, or relatives" and has a double meaning - it is almost a homophone of KISS. [23:06]
MichaelDaumLet's start this new project as professional as possible [23:06]
drew_stevensonwhat happened to nextwiki? [23:06]
Lavr_nextwiki is a registered trademark [23:06]
drew_stevensonmy boss walked by and called it a winner
oh
well there you have it
[23:06]
OliverKruegerThe platform will take a while... Eugen is installed an OS now...
s/installed/Installing/
[23:07]
uebera||What's the hawaiian word for "structured"? ;) [23:07]
MayerEugenballaballa [23:07]
OliverKruegerOliverKrueger prefers kith. ;)
are the domains still available for such a short url?
nope.
no matter what we take, it should be short.
[23:08]
uebera||"StructuredWiki"?
Yeah, not that short...
[23:09]
OliverKruegerhack that 10 times into your keyboard! ;) [23:10]
MayerEugenwhat plugins do we need out of the box ? [23:10]
OliverKruegernone
We can install plugins later.
[23:10]
MayerEugenfine. [23:10]
uebera||StructuredWiki -> StrucWiki -> Struki? (sounds like Struppi :)) [23:11]
gmcstruki? sounds liek a cheap CCCP car brand or something to me :) [23:11]
CDot1suki [23:11]
***Soronthar joined the channel [23:11]
Sorontharhi... forkers... [23:12]
OliverKruegerHi Raf [23:12]
gmchey there :) [23:12]
MayerEugenusr/local/etc [23:12]
Sorontharwhat did I miss? [23:12]
MayerEugenCRAZY BSD [23:12]
uebera||I'd try to come up with a name that reflects one of the characteristics/strengths of the system... [23:12]
OliverKruegerI will try to attach the #twiki_release logs to the topic on t.o. [23:13]
gmcbsd is tha bomb [23:13]
SorontharOliverKrueger... you can't right now [23:13]
gmcis peter already sanitizing the codev?
Soronthar: what's going on?
[23:13]
Sorontharuntill you agree on the term of use, and a TWiki Admin put you back in TWikiCommunityGroup, you cannot do any edit on t.o besides your homepage [23:15]
OliverKruegeroic [23:15]
CDot1and did you? [23:15]
Sorontharterms of use are fair enoug... I just opted in to measure the response time. [23:15]
gmcso basically we are all locked out.. nice [23:15]
Sorontharyep [23:16]
Wolf_Marbachhey its funny i uploaded my firts plugin yesterday and cannot edit anymore
This is exactly how I learned doing business with US companies (no affront Lynnwood, I know there are nice guys, too :) )
[23:16]
SorontharI kind of like the new skin "design provided by TWIKI.NET" [23:17]
gmcSoronthar: you're being sarcastic now, no? [23:18]
uebera||But you need more than 1024 pixels to see that properly, else the note is coverd by the jump/search bars ;)
s /coverd/covered/
(at least w/ Firefox 3.0.1)
[23:18]
Sorontharyeah, I notice that [23:19]
***eset joined the channel [23:20]
drew_stevensonhey does this mean *wiki will finally have upgrade scripts etc? :) [23:21]
Sorontharnice speed... i'm a proud member of the TWikiCommunityGroup again... perhaps my irate email had something to do with it. [23:21]
CDot1drew_stevenson: sure. If you write them ;-) [23:21]
gmcSoronthar: you mean, you're a proud membe rof the TWikiDotnetCommunityGroup :) [23:21]
SorontharI assume that the carpet was sweep under our feet without warning, then? [23:22]
CDot1y [23:22]
drew_stevensonCDot1; touché [23:22]
gmci should be off to bed soonish.. i'm quite feverish and have a drivers license exam tomorrow (again) [23:24]
CDot1gmc: just remember; green = go, amber = go very fast, red = go on, just three more cars then [23:26]
gmc:) [23:26]
***AndreU joined the channel [23:26]
LarsEikPeter is actively using facebook also.. "advertising" for the relaunch. [23:27]
MayerEugenCDot1: hehe :)
"deadLUNCH" :)
[23:27]
uebera||gmc: ...and left is where your thumb's right ;) [23:28]
CDot1gmc: so, do we have a wiki? [23:29]
MayerEugenon my way
domainthings left
[23:29]
gmcMayerEugen: put it under nextwiki for now? [23:30]
MayerEugeni dont mind, but as i said [23:30]
gmcmove the old nextwiki config out of the way, and add it as a ServerAlias in the other conf [23:30]
MayerEugena twikifork.org with just a message could be usefull
we dont use it as a name, but as a information page
[23:30]
gmcpeople are eager to type away in that fresh new wiki :) [23:30]
drew_stevensonone of the first things you can do is have a naming contest [23:31]
SorontharI can provide a subdomain to soronthar.com until a name is decided. [23:31]
***krk joined the channel [23:32]
OliverKruegerI need some food now. Be back in 45mins. [23:33]
gmci'm grabbing twikifork.org, we'll use that until we have a new name or peter sues us [23:33]
MayerEugenSoronthar: i would like a really neutral domain, neutral as possible an clear "temporally" [23:33]
esetwikiT.org? [23:34]
MayerEugennot bad eset [23:34]
OliverKruegerjust take any. its temporarily. [23:34]
esetalso good for wiki Two.0 [23:34]
Wolf_MarbachTeeWiki [23:34]
***SvenDowideit joined the channel
SvenDowideit changed topic: http://nextwiki.org ?
[23:35]
Lavr_Welcome to the new world [23:35]
CDot1OK, the team formerly known as the IGT has just had a skype call [23:35]
SvenDowideiti fell very sorry for you optimistic peoples [23:35]
CDot1we don;t have a mandate to act as a leadership group, but we had to wrap the business of TWiki [23:36]
SvenDowideitI have to read the nite's irc [23:36]
CDot1SvenDowideit: do you have all the logs you need? [23:36]
SvenDowideityes, and to post a summary both on t.o and publically
i think so
[23:36]
MayerEugenCDot1: We and YU are building a fork. No need for to much mandates in here.. [23:36]
CDot1great
MayerEugen: agreed.
[23:36]
SvenDowideitnow to work out howto sell this to my clients [23:37]
MayerEugenSvenDowideit: i dont think you can put something on t.o anymore [23:37]
SvenDowideitmmm [23:37]
SorontharI can :) [23:37]
Lavr_Sven you have to say "Heil Peter" to post on TWiki.org the regular way. We have all lost our accounts on d.t.o by the way- [23:37]
MayerEugenSoronthar: you bad guy you :) [23:37]
SvenDowideitwe have?
what about on d.t.o
ok
bigger issue
[23:37]
Lavr_Please try your access also [23:38]
SvenDowideitcna the igt please send an email to jon of sin
sun
[23:38]
CDot1SvenDowideit: my password has been changed on d.t.o. No idea about yours. [23:38]
SvenDowideitand ask if they are happy to have t.n missappropriate the servers donated to the real t.o community? [23:38]
CDot1I can still get in using ssh keys, but obviously no sudo [23:38]
Sorontharif you want to stir thing up while leaving, I suggest the IGN to send a public letter to the T.N investors... [23:39]
SvenDowideitinteresting [23:39]
CDot1I suggest you stop suggesting things for other people to do [23:39]
SvenDowideiti can't get in with either ssh keys nor pwd
CDot1, ok
[23:39]
Sorontharbrb [23:40]
CDot1SvenDowideit: maybe I hit it just as the pws were changed, i dunno. [23:40]
Lavr_When is our last backup from? [23:40]
SvenDowideitlast night [23:40]
CDot1good enough [23:40]
SvenDowideit(checking) [23:40]
Lavr_You have that? Good. Then the damage is minimal [23:41]
SvenDowideitI'll set them both up on DH today
legacy.nextwiki.org
and bugs.nextwiki.org :)
[23:41]
Lavr_We need a different name than nextwiki soon (for your info) - nextwiki is a registered trademark. [23:42]
Wolf_MarbachNexTwiki? [23:42]
SvenDowideity, its a placeholder [23:42]
gmcand/or twikifork.org [23:43]
SvenDowideithave you got those domains?
they'd be useful for media
[23:43]
gmcwhich ones? [23:45]
SvenDowideittwikifork [23:45]
drew_stevensonI'm sure it's trademarked but google doesn't find anything for "starwiki" (it's a meh name but I thought I'd share before going home"
see I can't even use quotes right anymore...
[23:46]
SvenDowideitgrin
almost 10am, and i'm ready for a good lie down
[23:46]
drew_stevenson5:47 CST [23:47]
gmcf*ck.. [23:47]
drew_stevensoner 17:47
for the kids
[23:47]
SvenDowideitnite
wow to the privacy policy
[23:49]
CDot1SvenDowideit: did you sign? [23:50]
SvenDowideitwhy would i? [23:50]
Wolf_Marbachwhat privacy policy [23:53]
SvenDowideithttp://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/TWikiPrivacyStatement#foo_1 [23:54]
Wolf_Marbachthanks sven [23:54]
MayerEugenwhat the hell is wrong with the VI under freebsd.. [23:57]
***sayotte joined the channel [23:57]
sayottesayotte groans [23:58]
uebera||MayerEugen: emacs is your friend... :p [23:58]
MayerEugenemacs is not my friend at all. !!!! [23:58]
uebera||Ah, I see... you're one of "them"... ;) [23:59]

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